Look deep into the fins. Also, if you want to know what happens if you put R134a in an R12 system, you should first confirm if the R12 system can be replaced or if the refrigerants can be mixed. And I already have so much time and money in this a/c project that I REFUSE to cut any corners as small as a TEV.It doesn't help that most people in the business (at least that I come in contact with, present company excluded, of course!) difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. . In most cases, the systems used have varied components, designs, and service ports. Could that be screwing up the systems performance?Anyway, when I installed the system, the new TXV (is that short for expansion valve?) They can be mounted quite easy,and there is a mounting kit that helps to hang it. We chose to use 5-6 ounces of oil to be on the safe side: 3-4 ounces for the compressor, 1 oz of oil for the drier and another ounce of oil for system losses. The crossover point is approximately at 64F. Rules governing changing from the former to the latter differ between countries. There is only a temperature switch on these cars as far as I recall, and it just switches on the aux fan. You are indeed 20% out of the OEM spec for cooling. The adjusted tension of this spring is the determining factor in the opening and closing of the expansion valve. From memory, I put in at least 8 ounces of oil, probably around 10 ounces in there. They might say for instance, add 3-4 oz of oil to the compressor, 1 oz of oil for when you replace a drier, 2 oz oil for the evaporator and so on. They should be able to keep you comfortable on a long trip, but don't expect vent frost in 3 minutes or lesss.2) Too much oil can reduce cooling capacity, and the effect is not linear. This chart has a column of ambient (outside) air temperatures on one side and a corresponding range of high side pressures on the other side. If the system was upgraded by a professional it should have an upgrade sticker. There is more to check.The evaporator must be clean as well as the condensor - was this a smoker's car?You should check the water control valve for the heater core. . For example, at an evap temp of 30 (your daughter's system is probably running around 25-28 saturated in order to give a 32 duct temp), the pressure of R-134a is 26.1psi. Do I leave the orignal condensor in, etc?Thanks. In a comparison between R12 vs R134a vs R1234yf, R1234yf will pass as the best refrigerant. 5. -------------------------"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." Just leave it alone for now. evarporator, expansion valve plus flushing out the full system and replacing all the o rings. Components Coils, Heaters, Motors, etc. I'm going to check the condensor is way clean too. A final difference is that most (though not all) R-1234yf cars will have a Suction Line Heat Exchanger. R12 systems used mineral oil, but unfortunately mineral oil doesn't dissolve in R134a. The best oil that runs well with R134a is PAG oil or Polyalkylene Glycol. Make sure to get the R12 EXP valve if that is the way you go. The oil used in R12 systems is not compatible with R134a refrigerant. I bought a relay to put on it connected to the compressor clutch. Can I use the one for the R-12? Differences between R-12 and R-134a systems: 1. The condensor airflow drops off as the fan clutch dies slowly. For those of you who are considering what the cost is for R12 you can think of it this way: Dont go out to dinner this weekend. A slow loss of cooling at city speeds is usually related to condensor capacity & airflow issues.You could improve the cooling capacity by replacing the condensor with a high effeciency parallel flow unit. The cure is to use the newer R134a compressors is sealing washers that are different thickness. Above this temperature, the saturation pressure of R134a is higher than that of R12; below, it is lower. The butylcellusolve or the citrus solvent will dissolve the carcass in a few minutes. Most of all the differences gravitate to longevity, functionality, and safety. R12 is CFC: Even though R12 is one of the most commonly used refrigerants, it is CFC. At 2000rpm, windows open, highest fan, hi pressure stabilized at 225 psi, low 25psi.Ambient 81F, vent 61F. (You must log in or sign up to reply here. Stay home and grill your own steaks and stir your own martini. Minor adjustments to the expansion valve and other controls may be necessary for some plans. Participate in over 40 different forums and search/browse from nearly 3 million posts. It won't be optimal, though.On some/many valves, you can adjust them, but that might make matters worse unless you really know what you're doing (which I don't!).RegardsGeorge. They examined the two configurations of capillary tubes i.e. So if you car has a large amount of rubber hose, such as a 40 feet with the 911, then you will be re-charging the system often and that is expensive no matter which refrigerant you use. But, if your car lacks enough condenser and you have many 100+ degree days then you may want to stick either increase air flow, add another condenser as we mentioned in The Mr. Ice Project or stick with R12. Generally the system will be initially charged with approximately 80% to 85% of the original amount of R12, using R134a. In short, NO! GWP is a measurement of Greenhouse Gases and their effect on Global Warming. Expansion valves are an active device, they regulate the flow of refrigerant to the evaporator depending on evaporator temperature. All pre-97 XJs use systems with the same basic operating principle, although the parts do change a bit. R134a is called tetrafluoroethane (HFC). CONCLUSIONS The differences in the theoretical C.O.P.H calculated for R12 and R134a are consistent with values quoted in the literature. I don't believe it is but I had a service guy tell me it needs to be done. At 40, it is 35psi, which is a difference of 8.9psi. ~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446. leading to corrosion of expansion valves, capillary tube plugging, and compressor bearing . Next I'll jumper the aux fan. Shorting the plug for the refrigerant switch should run the fan when the compressor is on. It cycles on off in med (or low for that matter)Gotta tell ya. I am ordering new parts, and planning to convert my system to R-134a. It can be used applications like walk-in coolers, food and dairy display cases, domestic refrigerators, and beverage dispensers and vending machines. A/C systems designed to use R-12 will cool best when charged with R-12 refrigerant. I just got some hi/lo side gauges so I'm going to take readings, if they are needed. #19. It is a known suspect that lets heat into the heat exchanger/core even when off because the mono-valve is on the exit side of the heater core. If there is no pusher fan, and you have the room, put one in. The bad thing is I don't know what to do about it. Paul:A 1983 240D should have a York compressor on an OEM system. . 5. At the time I thought nothing of it, but now I am thinking maybe that is contributing to the system not working as well as it could. Trinary Pressure Switch quantity. The non-flammables can have R22 type gas which is not compatible with most rubber hoses or they have gases that contribute to global warming. How about evacing 1 pound of refrig from the system, and then putting 1 lb of pure R12 back in? R12 contains a chemical called chlorine that destroys the ozone layer, thereby causing potential environmental risk. This can be very very expensive. Using R134a requires that Polyolester (POE) lubricant must be used in the compressor. This is 11F off the FSM performance graph - vent should be around 50F. Gain access to our free AOP (Ask a Professional) Section to get real answers for your questions. I have the original (R12) style expansion valve in the Maverick AC system. So you could likely put off buying those new hoses just a bit longer if you wanted. Welcome to rxmechanic.com. Use strips of foam to couple the two heat exchangers if necessary.B. A capacity curve is shown in figure 2 for relative capacity of R134a vs. R12 for evaporating temperatures from 0F to 50F. If it splashes inside the eye, it could lead to a serious eye problem. I think so. There is NO reason to retrofit a vehicle to R-134a as long as the R-12 system is cooling properly and contains a normal charge of refrigerant. The ARPA Zone/Open Membership Discussion Forums. Also, since R134a uses synthetic oil, it has a low global warming potential, unlike R12 which uses mineral oil which poses a negative environmental impact. Then I'll put the ball valve in on the coolant and test it and see what we have. George Bray on Wed August 31, 2005 5:03 PM I believe the optimum supercool setting will vary slightly between an expansion valve for an R12, as compared to R134a, system. The best replacement for R134a is R1234yf, while R12 refrigerant replacement was R134a. R12 and R22 are both now banned by the EPA in the United States. Fitting a PF condensor is not rocket science, but it requires some planning. Get to the point where I can walk without crutches2. look at the difference! This may be the source of your oil confusion. What is needed? As R134A refrigerant has different operating characteristics and pressures this valve is not necesssry. I had a pair on my SAAB that seemed ok - but new ones ran 20% faster!Your best clue to airflow issues is a 60 mph test. Since you will be using less R134a than R12 you do not want to rely on the driers site glass to determine if the system is full. Helical and Serpentine coils. ~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446. Even though their common major function is to cool the system, they have many differences. Statisicaly your friend was lucky. Is there a source of valves by, say, eaton number? Autor de l'entrada Per ; Data de l'entrada calexico west port of entry hours; 12 month libor rate 2021 a difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve a difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve Though - the valve for a 1991 says R12 on it, and for a 1994, it says R-134a. Here are the basics for converting a system that does not have a charge of R12, its empty. Unfortunately, the R12 refrigerant doesnt always blow cold air. ambulance tailgate conversion Before landing on the debate of R134 vs R12 you should know that both R134a and R12 are AC refrigerants types used in refrigeration and air conditioning systems. We recently created this blog site to enable us to share our knowledge with other automotive mechanics and car owners. -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a. Related products. #4. of coiled cap tube on VCR system with R134a. SO here's my question. By using a qualified a/c shop with the proper equipment you odds are in your favor of having the job done correctly the first time. Any ideas from the info above? and an evaporator core and expansion valve that are optimized for R134a . Besides R134a there are some other refrigerants that are approved to replace R12 and there is a long list of refrigerants that are not approved. Best for varieties of operating conditions: Its boiling point is -21.6 Celsius. This implies that the discharge pressure of the compressor should be moderate so it can produce the refrigerants condensation in the condenser at the atmospheric temperature. But I've read that these car's didn't do too well in the a/c stakes, so that might just be as good as it gets. R-12 - yellow R-134a - light blue R-22 - green R-402A - light brown (sand) R-402B - olive R-404A - orange R-407C - medium brown R-410A - rose R-507 - teal J Originally Posted by goldNSX. A. Pressure/temperature table for R12, R134a, and R513A is shown in Figure 1. . I'll put the relay on for that. The flammables have hydrocarbons. The next piece of equipment to track down leaks is a leak sniffer. A lower GWP alternative to R-134a had to be found and thus we have the new 1234yf. The catalytic converter is an essential component of your car's emission system that helps save the environment from harmful emissions. My turn to LOL - greasiesel! To ensure the right charge, you must fill the new system with between 75 and 85% of the factory-set capacity for optimal cooling. These efforts to balance the system can not be realized if there are problems within the a/c system, such as: poor performing compressor, dirty condenser or poor air flow through the condenser, malfunctioning expansion valve, water or air in the system, improperly operating fresh air or heat input in the climate-air mixing system. Besides, you have a greaseisel. "Jerky Locker" LMAO I am using that one in the future!Florida = BUGS! By noting the ambient temperature you can look up what the preferred high side pressure should be. I could easily be over at least 2 - 3 ounces over on the oil. This is an electronic tool that sucks in air through a tube and across a sensor. With R134a you do not rely on the site glass. I'm doing one thing at a time so I know what the cause was. The newer valves and switches will work with both refrigerants. sparkee said: Thanks for the Service Bulletin. Then when it is switched off for a few minutes and then back on, the air cools again. So if you car has a large amount of rubber hose, such as a 40 feet with the 911, then you will be re-charging the system often and that is expensive no matter which refrigerant you use. And, unfortunately a small high side pressure gauge on a short hose. But as there's not a big difference, people say you can suffice with either. Is that reasonable?Vent airflow is good, I think. If you're getting a R134a compressor, might as well finish the job - replace the receiver/dryer, flush everything else, and convert to R134a anyhow. Paul:It is never a waste of my time to chat with someone that understands the problem, and wants to fix it. R134a vs R12 refrigerant? The original CFC expansion valve used for R12 needs to be replaced with an HFC one for 134a to feed the evaporator correctly. CR4P). Refrigerators generally utilize R22, R32, or 410A-based coolants as their cooling agent. The major reason for the replacement of R12 with R134a was to curb future greenhouse effects. I'm having the same concern. 3 ounces? -------------------------"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." There are two hoses listed, R-12 64-53-1-377-821 for $72.50, and R-134a 64-53-8-391-051 fro $262.50. It has already been clearly stated that R12 is a chemical that damages the earths ozone layer and shouldnt be released into the environment no matter the circumstance. Rich Membership Chairman Using R134a in an R12 system will cause the oil not to move with the refrigerant, causing a system failure and probably won't even cool the system well, if at all. Anyone know what happens when an R12 expansion valve is used in a system charged with R134A? 37 in 2005 tacoma, R134A. The analysis focuses on Coefficient of Performance for . Boiling Point: R134a refrigerants boiling point is -26.3C (-15.34F). R134a compressors are substituted as new to retrofit the R12 system compressor part numbers with different height sealing washers. For instance you can evacuate FRIGC FR-12 into a refrigerant recovery bottle that has R134a in it or visa versa. The good thing is that after you convert to R134 you can top off the system easily and cheaply. Also the new quick connect fittings for the high & low side. The only difference I can imagine would be the recharge connection. The higher the ambient temperature the higher the high side pressure. A York oil capacity is listed as "6.5 to 9.6 ounces". Only show this user. Reattach the hose lines using new R134a compatible o-rings, lightly lubricate with compressor oil. Disconnect the two hose lines to the compressor, protect the ends from getting dirty. I don't think it has any air dams or seals, I'll check to make sure. Edited: Sat July 14, 2007 at 10:22 PM by fonebone. Compatible with multiple applications: The major reason for the introduction of R134a was to replace R12, so it functions perfectly in the same range of applications like rotary, screw, and centrifugal compressors for air conditioning and refrigeration. I don't know where it is getting the switch off command, or why the vent temp drops steadily. R134a and R12 are among the most popular types of refrigerants. 3) A/C Compressor Always On. Is the information not applicable to the old Pantera system? asia pacific stevie awards 2021. gin, amaretto cocktail. Generally you follow the refrigerant flow moving from connection to connection, component to component, and you sniff the a/c vents to check for evaporator leaks as well. It is made up of carbon, hydrogen, and fluorine. VerticalScope Inc. All Rights Reserved. This would be a custom install, there is no "drop-in" condensor upgrade for that car.Check for proper fan operation, and clean the air path on both the condensor & radiator. Its not that difficult but the procedures of evacuation, charging and testing should be done by a licensed a/c technician that is experienced with R134a and your particular car. Maybe a jerky locker.I cleaned the condensor with the off the shelf ac cleaner stuff from Home Depot that I used on my home evaporator. When I compare parts, 93 uses one part number and 94 has a different part number. I dont know why the cost difference between compressors is so huge, though. Its chemical symbol is CCl2F2. Attach the R134a charge port adaptors, there are two types.. one of which you need to remove the old R12 valve cores. Hot coolant migrates up through the core by convection (is that the word? Though you can purchase 12 or 16 ounce cans of R134a from local retailers it is very difficult to measure out the correct amount into your system. The exact amount will vary with each car. If you find any of these conditions you will want to liquid flush (with dedicated AC flush solution) all the lines, condensers, evaporator (remove the expansion valve) before you proceed further. Very nice! a 50f delta across the condensor is good, but I suspect that is an idle reading. That way I will have reduced the oil by about 1/3 (assuming the oil is mixed evenly through the system). Not going to mess up your 'do, but you can feel it. The first vehicle that used the R1234yf refrigerant was the 2013 Cadillac XTS. Yes, the 50F diff (160-110F) on the condenser was at idle, and ambient was about 90F. Hopefully after you have read this entire page you will have enough information to determine which type of refrigerant is best for you. Flushed, vacuumed etc. If you have 10 ounces of oil in the system, that is contributing to the poor performance as well. Als nostres webs oferimOne Piece,Doctor Who,Torchwood, El Detectiu ConaniSlam Dunkdoblats en catal. In sum, R12 has done more bad than good. He started writing automotive articles to share his garage experience with car enthusiasts and armature mechanics. This is a great space to write long text about your company and your services. If liquid refrigerant were to exit the evaporator. Bookmarks: Digg; del . But with an R4, better too much than too little.3) A TXV optimized for 134a will be ok with R12.4) The airflow across the condensor is crucial to good performance. You do not want to exceed the systems high side recommendations. The symbol implies that R12 is a composite of carbon, chlorine, and fluorine. This refers to BTU's (heat) moved per pound of refrigerant moved. by | Jun 21, 2022 | what is the most accurate latin translator | burlington iowa arrests | Jun 21, 2022 | what is the most accurate latin translator | burlington iowa arrests They have no moving parts. american sniper longest shot; how to adjust sunsetter awning arms; pastor jeremy roberts texas. Failure to abide by the EPA regulations can result in expensive fines for either you or your service technician. The problem with these so called drop in replacements is that to properly handle them you may need dedicated equipment to identify the gas and evacuate it for proper disposal. They plug all the time. With R-12, 30 is 28.4psi and 40 is 36.9psi, for a difference of 8.5psi. That is a good thing. The MB chart shows 360 psi with R12 in some conditions. The original rubber a/c hose lines in your car will leak out R12 through the hoses lining. The cure is to use the newer R134a compressors is sealing washers that are different thickness. After the optimum refrigerant charge is determined the car should be test driven to check for performance of the system. A Lot of the fins are bent, especially at the top. Formula: (R12 Charge Specification x 0.9) - 0.25 lbs. R404a is a zeotropic blend with a temp glide , because of the mixture of 2 or more refrigerants. Also, would a genuine R12 TXV be better, or is it too marginal to worry about?I think I should do the FSM test for performance - they have a graph with ambient temp and a/c temp. Gnats & mosquitos will clog deep. I had to vaccum the system for 2 hours and recharge 4 oz of PAG oil plus 36 oz of 134A freon (3 cans). With the A/c off hi and lo were both at 105psi. 4) Inconsistent Airflow. Kommentare . The ozone depletion potential of a chemical is a factor that shows the level of degradation itll cause to the ozone layer that surrounds and secures the earth from harmful radiation. You do not however need to replace all the o-rings or seals for a simple conversion, it is simply a logical thing to do when and if the time comes to work or replace certain components because of age issues. 4.3 out of 5 stars 491. Debug the condensor (I am a computer nerd after all!)3. R134a Refrigerant Recharge Kit with BPV31 Bullet Piercing Valve and R134a Quick Coupler, R134a/R-12/R-22 Freon Refrigerant Hose Can Tap Kit for A/C System - Easy to use. The AC usually does not work at all. The approval is very legal one, governed by the U.S. EPA. We ALWAYS want to know the pressure readings! Even with proper fan operation, missing seals & air dams can effect condensor effeciency. 05-25-2017 02:14 AM. Remove the old mineral oil from the compressor by turning it upside down, side to side, and turn the front hub on the clutch assembly. Crap! If 50 degrees across the cond. We've updated our forums!Click here to visit the new forum, Year: 1991Make: Jaguar Model: XJ6Engine Size: 4.0. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. R134a is NOT less efficient than R12 Actually R134a is more efficient. Is that why expansion valves are specific to R12 or R134A? Pray I can let some oil out of the compressor without losing my precious R12. As noted, measure up front as best as you can to get as close to the aftermarket dim. and recharged with mineral oil and 2.2 lbs R12. Existing technology: R134a has been in use in the refrigeration industry for very many years, and theres so much information about the safe use of the product. 4) Repeat step 2, making sure it will fit. At least you do not have 16 ounces in there ( yup seen it before).For now, straighten all of the fins that you can, clean the condensor well, and re-test with the aux fan running. Like say half a can or so recharge come springtime warm weather or something. R 134A is designed for the high demands of an automobile AC and cannot be used on refrigerators due to pressure differences. Yes, this was a smokers car. The evap is hard to get at. In practice this means that the car can overheat and the aux fan will stay off! However, it was found to be a very bad gas for the environment. MB has specfic test parameters for performance, but you can always test at max load - doors open fan on highest speed.The oil overcharge looks like a parabolic curve. Bohica, I appreciate your help with this. Is there a difference between a R134a expansion valve and an R12 TXV? This is because R134a. Mark Baker R-401b is the mixture by weight of 61% R22, 11% R-152a and 28% of R-124. You will be fine with a 134a-compatible TXV running R12. If the charge is low the compressor will cycle on/off in the max AC position. A. Pressure/temperature table for R12, R134a, and R513A is shown in Figure 1. . Osuagwu Solomon is a certified mechanic with over a decade of experience in the mechanic garage, and he has over five years of experience in the writing industry. Energy usage: R134a is less efficient in cooling compared to R12. An orifice tube is just a fixed nozzle that pisses refrigerant into the evaporator without any sort of feedback. R12 is simply too expensive for a 25+ year old A/C system. Nick, I hear you - there maybe nothing to do here. Besides, its technology has been tested and trusted. Consider using the newer valve, even with 134a stamped on the valve. It's helluva humid and hot here in north florida, and I drive around all day for my job. Therefore, the R12 refrigerant is illegal, and emitting it is illegal. link to How to cut off a Catalytic Converter. PaulJerky King -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a. A/C receiver difference between R12 and R134a? On this website we are addressing only R134a and not other suggested drop in replacements. R134a refrigerant fittings are different size. Are you sure you have an R4? Stopleak is also risky. In this study, without the need for major modifications to the bus air conditioner, the variation of the ejector dimensions according to different parameters has been investigated in the case of using the R1234yf, R1234ze(E), or R600a refrigerants, which may be a substitute for R134a as a refrigerant due to . 34 in 70 series w/ R12 in 100+ Tucson, AZ summer heat w/ hd-t, w/ 13B-T is was unbearable about 31 at vent w/ R12. As for R134a and R1234yf, theres no room for conversion. R-134a can actually cool better than R-12 in a well designed R-134a system as it has better thermoconductive properties, but all the high pressure issues have to be addressed.But even when these cars were brand new, didn't cool worth a damned, recall almost dying in one in Las Vegas at the time, but a good way to lose weight with gallons of perspiration pouring out, just don't let that drip on the seats, that is inappropriate.

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